Episode 13 - Humor with Pete Holmes

[transcript automatically generated - cleanup in progress]

this episode of the lurgis podcast is a bit different it's uncensored and contains graphic language and discussion of mature themes it's not suitable for children or anyone offended by such content if that sounds like you go ahead and bow out and catch us in a couple of weeks when we return with a more traditional episode of the liturgist podcast thanks hey guys welcome to the literature's podcast what is a little liturgist like liturgy you like literally like creates or directs liturgy yeah and liturgy is something it's the word okay it's the work of the people is the is the idea of liturgy and so this podcast kind of caters towards people that might not uh have a liturgy that helps them very much anymore a liturgy a religious liturgy so i mean a a spiritual liturgy christian liturgy a christian we [Music] we have a manifesto of sorts actually but of sorts he means literally a manifesto literally like it's called manifesto oh wow yeah i'd love to hear it before you blow me up okay so any listeners who have no idea what's going on we have a guest today named pete holmes and i just realized some people may not know pete so yeah holmes is a comedian host of a terrific podcast called you made it weird uh genuinely one of my favorite shows and actually the whole rave that like really made me want to get you on the show more than anything yeah was that i had a throwaway line on our episode of you made it weird that bombed yeah and it's it's been a thorn in my side ever since so my goal with this episode i don't care what michael has planned what the people in the audience want is i want to redeem myself what was the line i said i can't believe i left you hanging this is this is bad on the house no no you nailed me oh really subtly because i said like so humor is the exploitation of taboo and you went and i like i was like that was so clever mike you're tired you're hungover and you just dropped gold on pete holmes yeah and you go well i mean among other things and that has been a sand in my oyster ever since like i was like no no that was a good so i've actually gone on a research binge yeah to try to learn about the science of humor i i'm ready i have very few topics that i will more willingly debunk than the science of humor like i've been in many live debates and podcast debates uh and i'm always happy to talk about it so here we go it's not with any aggression i just if i can say the thing that i'm going to keep going back to before we even say it is that dissecting humor is like dissecting love making or it's like dissecting some sort of peak or transcendent like you on the beach experience once we put it to our language and our understanding we've kind of lost it there's so much there's so much laughing that yeah that happens that has nothing to do with anything just in the way that you can't explain why the the sex you had with your soulmate for the first time was so so wonderful i am the guy who both says you can't dissect your god experience and then immediately dissects my own god experience yeah i know so i'm that's why i couldn't be happier to talk about it i'm thrilled that that's the subject so here we go challenge accepted on debunking my unified theory of the science of humor i'm happy to hear and you guys don't even know how serious this is i have my ipad with notes and if you ever see me speak i don't like need notes to go over science stuff but i'm so determined to nail this one so here we go the science of humor several anthropologists and evolutionary biologists believe that laughter appeared in humans prior to spoken language and that when they've brain scan people because that's how you learn everything is your brain scan people uh when they're laughing that it is associated with um a response in the amygdala so like whereas like happiness and joy are more in your anterior cingulate cortex by the way if you listen to literature's podcast i'm assuming you know these brain parts by now um humor tends to reside more in the amygdala which is where fear and anger come from especially sarcasm and cutting humor interesting yeah and so well you know i'm anti-sarcasm it's an excuse for unfunny people to try and be funny which is what it is most of the time and to that i say just don't be funny you can be interesting and engaging and delightful and joyful without being like quote unquote nor mcdonald you know what i mean like when people just go like no it's a small couch like shut the fuck up shut up you're just in the way why is that but really what makes me upset about it is the pride that people have that they're like oh i'm sarcastic like deal with that i am sorry no you're not right you're just voicing what we all have which is a quick divisive dualistic this is bad this is bad this is good this is bad that sucks this sucks there's really good sarcasm and i've never i've laughed very very hard at sarcasm but that that amygdala stuff that that goes with the fear of course it goes with fear and cynicism and hopelessness because you're just like oh we'll be there real fast because you're in traffic you're fucking in the way right you're in the way of my life you know what i mean and then i have people that are so funny and sarcastic i can't even give you an example of good ones because i'm just not good at it but i don't claim it everyone thinks they like sarcasm but what they really like they like good i don't even want to call it sarcasm i mean like it's like irony people like irony more than they like sarcasm but sarcasm so much of the time is just like saying what you don't mean as if you mean it it's a weak move instead of having some sort of opinion uh that's that's interesting you're just going with negative which is always there that's not to say i haven't basked in the joy of hating on a person or a movie that's that can be so cathartic because there's it's a very it's a cheat it's a methadone way i got that from you calling things methadone it's a methadone way to like connect to somebody quickly is to hate on something together but there are better ways yeah and that it's especially as i've started to actually make things yeah hating on things gets harder absolutely super hard so we got to point one of five on my humor theory yeah so i'm gonna go back i'm ready no no no because i'm serious this is this is my this is my keep me on topic uh so sarcasm amygdala humor origin so uh they've also found that when people are are um startled by a stimulus into fight or flight and it turns out that that stimulus is not actually dangerous yeah laughter diffuses the uh adrenaline response how great i left and so people startled you can imagine two proto-humans who can't speak uh it's night they bump into each other one of them realizes it's another human and laughs and that prevents a particularly dangerous interaction that's right so that's not where i end so that's sort of humor i think that's great of course that's true laughter enters the human experience but then that's just laughter that's a different thing than humor it's a foundational component well monkeys tickle each other too i mean that's a fascinating thing so we clearly like laughing clearly and it does things to our brain that are pleasant that's why i mean laughter yoga you can we could all i do it on the show sometimes we fake laugh until it turns into a real laugh and for some reason this is so threatening to people maybe in my business i don't know but who cares like if it makes you laugh we're just laughing and then and before you know it you'll be howling your fake laughter bit got me in trouble on a flight how's that i've never heard an episode with it before yeah and i was listening with some fascination yeah uh and you guys started fake laughing i was like oh that's really funny and kind of weird and whatever and i started laughing with you on that episode really loud on like a red eye in first class oh that's great and couldn't like get myself back together that's fine it was like people are sleeping oh really yeah but i like was so into these two people who are not in the actual room it's crazy but what is what is your brain yeah well it's like watching pornography people like watching pornography with men in it typically because that you have that as uh experience you go like oh i'm him yeah that's my penis yeah and like similarly you hear someone laughing it gives you that touchstone to go in and be like i am also there and i am left but i'm going to put the fake laughter in the lower brain laugh category not the higher brain humor category i'll give you that so here's here is where i ladder up to where humor comes from and to do that i have to tell you about um michio kaiku's i thought you're here we have to we don't have any sponsors uh so there's no we don't have a sponsor message this episode is sponsored by the liturgists um no mike michio kaku is a physicist theoretical physicist i'm sure you've i haven't it was work oh it was fantastic it's a book called the future of the mind and he takes a physicist take on the brain and consciousness and so he as a physicist sort of posits that all consciousness is is the ability to respond to the environment period and he set up these tiers of consciousness so like a level zero consciousness would be a thermostat why because the thermostat knows the temperature and can respond to it so it can say oh it's it's now 71.9 degrees i'm going to turn the air conditioning on i'm going to turn it off when it gets to 69. and that's a legitimate feedback loop that's sensory and yeah and response yeah right so he says a little zero consciousness so then a level one consciousness would be like and that's a singer thermostat glenn beck okay so the main thing is on level zero consciousness there's one loop yep right in a level one consciousness there's thousands of loops okay a plant a sponge so like plants respond to where the sun is seasonality temperature moisture attacks chemical signals from other plants they have some awareness they can respond at a much more sophisticated level right then you get animals that can move so a thermostat has a model of reality that encompasses the current temperature that right there you know that feeling you get in your brain that it's like pleasantly tickled you're like oh yeah so compared to a thermostat is like really smart because it has a much more elaborate model of reality of course humidity temperature um we've gone from super mario yeah big stuff so then you have animals that can move and instead of hundreds of feedback loops you have thousands because they have to build a model of reality that includes stuff around me food's not going to get sucked out of the soil or past me because i'm a filter feeder i've got to find it whether it's plant matter or other animals i've got to hunt right right thousands of loops and suddenly see nervous systems appear to deal with this increase in complexity so then you go to the next level of consciousness which is social animals and why are social animals suddenly you know an exponential leap in the number of loops because not only do i have to model physical reality i have to be able to estimate the perspective of another organism i have to guess where i sit in the rank compared to the alpha and other members of this pack i have to be aware whether this animal is angry with me or happy with me and that requires a much much much much higher degree and higher fidelity model of reality not only aware of reality not only aware of myself but aware that other things have feelings and thoughts of some kind so you know chimps elephants dogs you know these social animals then we get to humans and what's different about human consciousness this is really exciting for me and we're the only animals that we can think of that build space-time into our consciousness past present future right right so dolphins who are social animals and extraordinarily intelligent as far as we can tell do not significantly ponder time-based events right even though they have really big brains really rich neocortexes right not space-time driven so we actually have a part of our brain in the prefrontal cortex called the orbito frontal cortex it's right behind your eye and your orbital frontal cortex's job one of its jobs is to constantly try to forecast the future so one of the reasons we like certainty when we feel like we have that removed i suppose you could it would be bad you would probably live like a day because you'd walk out into traffic because your orbital frontal cortex goes if you step out into traffic you might hit but dog zones step out well maybe they do they do stuff and they do they get hit right and they chase cars and because they can't forecast what's the possible outcome of all these different things it's it's just interesting how much of my own life is trying to minimize that part of my brain yes because it makes us worry yeah it makes us preoccupied with standing because our orbital frontal cortex wants to feel like it's right all the time because when we're right a lot we're successful we're right about when the rains are going to come and where the food's going to be right that's a feeling of satisfaction right so and this is where we start to manufacture like a false identity totally right that's a part of it yeah humor hit it a skilled humorist create a trajectory for the orbito frontal cortex and then defy it i like that and they create that startle response and the brain because it's been tricked and that's stressful yeah but it's safe because it's a comedian the response is that lower brain laughter it's very good how's that rank among people who've tried to do this it's very very good uh it's it's somewhat similar to there was this what was that wind i think open the front door i think the place is haunted i wish it were god i'd love a sign [Music] oh my gosh wouldn't that be great that would be great i guess that makes us a faithless generation i uh i love a good jesus quote out of nowhere i um the one that i heard that i kind of argued against and will in the in the interest of a good conversation and tried to argue against here is that that is certainly i i would be completely wrong to say that that's not true that's certainly true right but it's not comprehensive potentially there's no there's no way to comprehend it i mean that that's the point that i was making at the beginning we could talk about blood flowing to the penis and the vagina moistening itself somehow and then that sex you know what i mean but like you know i i know they have to get together and then they get together and then that sex but i mean you can't uh explain oh yeah i'm sure you could with the brain signs what it is that you're experiencing but like it's not the same as experiencing it's not the same as experiencing it thank you so much i really do appreciate that because i'm sure you could look at a brain and see what's happening but it's not the same but so i've heard comedy explained as a betrayal of some sort like and that's what you're talking about it's like a betrayal of a rule or some sort of law and you're saying i like the poetry of what you're saying a little bit more is that you think we're going a certain place and then it twists right and that does explain a great deal of comedy a bait and switch you know what i mean uh what's a good bait and switch it's like uh oh sorry i'm late i had a hot dog and i and i killed a homeless guy that worked on me yeah like i even knew when i was coming but then i didn't even do it and then i go i'm just kidding i didn't have a hot dog that's the bait and switch [Applause] that's the joke that's i mean that's fine too you were also just surprised and you're a generous left foot i appreciate it also just the shock if i killed a homeless guy because that's something that's not where the trajectory first of all you shouldn't kill homeless people secondly you're not supposed to admit it if you kill homeless but you know what i mean like that's why we laugh if you're just like like if you're ever with a really depressed i am a jenner's laughter no and i can't help it like i'm too it's great that's one of my other points is like why are people so proud of being hard laughers it's like it doesn't make you good work on that right be a joyful person yeah uh work on it um but the other thing is it's like if you've ever hung out with somebody that's just very frank it's just very very funny you know what i mean so if they're just like i fucking hate my kids or i hate my wife or anybody in a colorful way like i i happen to be one of those people that when people are just saying the truth to me i laugh very hard when i interviewed deepak chopra for my podcast i laughed almost the entire time so what was going on there that you might quantify or qualify that as a or categorize that as delight i might just say like i'm not really laughing i'm being delighted i'm being intellectually tickled or i'm being surprised or whatever but like you know apart from the uh so i think let's include what you're saying as maybe the the great big one yeah some sort of betrayal is like we're predicting the future in this way and then it's not that way and the surprise isn't threatening and it's okay and it's safe yeah and that's why safety and uh the the ritual of a comedy like it's a comedian we even have the word and the value of calling someone a comedian means that he can say things that other people can't say so we've created this safe space like therapy you can say it's okay to have those thoughts here it's okay for this person to say this in fact we'll reward this person for these things my my thing is we need to include truth-telling as something that makes people laugh really really hard an ease of anxiety primarily i've heard the anxiety death anxiety is relieved by uh laughing uh they say that's why that's one of the reasons why my friend tj told me that he thinks monkeys tickle each other to to calm this anxiety that they don't even know how to put into words but they know that that one chimp that was there yesterday isn't there anymore because he fell out of the tree so we tickle each other and that's relieved somehow so there's relief there's honesty and then what you're saying is surprise and there's truth telling and then there's just pure silliness and and i i think we need to include all of those in the category of what is humor i suppose because i i make fun of myself all the time i i enjoy laughing about what makes me laugh you know i mean instead of trying to be george carlin who i have a lot of respect for and crafting this amazingly you could load it into a computer and the computer would go this is comedy i don't that's great but i also like loading i have a bit that i do where i just say pierce get beers pierce pierce oh my gosh beers pierce over and over that was load that into a computer and it'll go this is a command for a man named pierce that was and i didn't i didn't include it but that bit is what i used to find a hole in that theory i couldn't patch yeah like when you do the rhyming thing and it's just stupid um joy's choice choice choice i lost it yeah at that show i say i'm talking about a woman named joyce who needs to make a choice and i go joyce choice okay but here i don't want to i don't want to cut into the dove too deep and kill it here you know what i mean right lose the fun but like what's happening in that moment is you're seeing and delighting into somebody who is green lighting their own sense of humor and that's something you can go back to being pack animals and being like it's a type of confidence it's a type of self-love it's a type of self-assuredness that's just another way of saying confidence but it's fun to say three things but like so you're watching someone being authentic so we for some reason or another we're like let's reward that with laughter and applause and joy because that's what he's going for and that's what he's experiencing and i'm going to do that as well and then it's also just kind of like sometimes things are just silly and they catch you sometimes you just say i just had a hot dog and kill a homeless person and it just gets you that is a betrayal though but saying pierce get beers over and over it's not is more it more is a joint plea this is the most important thing and it was my ex-father-in-law told me this it was so weird why did this man who worked in a hospital have this perspective it's the one thing i'd like to ask him and be like where did you hear this or did you think of it yourself he said i was just starting comedy at the time and he said when you go on stage it's not you trying to make them laugh you're inviting them to laugh at what makes you laugh and it changed my life so i was like 22 when he told me that and that's what i go up so there is that sort of like i'm saying pierre skepiers prs and that's always made me laugh and then everybody's laughing and then we're also laughing at the fact that it isn't a sophisticated joke and that becomes another layer of like isn't this stupid isn't life stupid i'm a professional and i'm just yelling pierce that's my you know probably my best known joke when i uh speak it's really easy for me to get my kind of crowds laughing right like if you if i went up on a stand-up stage no one would laugh but when i show up to a conference or a church i'm funny but i'm not actually very funny it's just i think what i said was funny and i respond to it and then they just laugh with me do you know what i mean i know what you mean but also the table is set for a different thing it's like going to a restaurant that doesn't have dessert and at the end they just give you a dessert you're like i thought your thing was you didn't have dessert it's completely unexpected so you're a speaker that that began my going to church when i was a kid if there was a pastor that was funny he's 50 times funnier because nobody thought he was going to be funny right thought he was going to talk about jonathan edwards and how we're all spiders in the hand of god over a fireplace you know what i mean and then instead that is a great reference yeah thank you he instead tells an anecdote about his kid that is hilarious yeah take that guy on a saturday night at eight o'clock that's not that great of a story but uh you know that's that's context too so you actually managed to work down the outline pretty well without saying it i don't like i could really like point for a point how you just flowed through it which makes me pretty proud of my outline um but it leads to a question yeah from the uh from our our listeners uh do you believe there should be limits to comedy topics or methods of humor to avoid why is it the use of curse words and stand-up scenes that make it so much funnier all the top comedians do it so it's sort of this idea like is there a too far in comedy or is there not i think that's two different questions swearing and then and then topics you know i mean and like i like doing comedy that is not it's not clean but it's not ugly for lack of a better term they're ugly people that tackle ugly topics and even they aren't ugly you know what i mean but then there are people that are just ugly i've opened for these people for years and their bits are just homophobic and horrible and i'll never forget seeing a guy whose bit was about uh gay anal sex and he was likening it to taking a big dump and it was just like in reverse it was just like really offensive and i was just like he didn't swear once and i was like that is so much more offensive than anything uh i've ever seen like someone who does swear say so the to answer the swearing part i suppose a lot of the big guys do it is because like george burns says that the cigar is the official uh accessory of the comedian of course he's from a different era none of us smokes cigars anymore but it's this idea that it's this imposing unapologetic thing you light a cigar in a room everybody has to deal with it right so there's a part of a comedian even if you're a meek comedian that is on stage and saying i will speak and you will laugh and you will clap when i'm done and you don't get to talk so it's this imposing thing cigar being phallic also kind of works it's just imposing uh male type energy i'm not saying women can't obviously i love female comedians but there is something kind of masculine for lack of a better term about the whole thing so in line with that swearing is also just that like i said don't do it at the white house dinner but it would be pretty funny like if we were going to write the movie we're not going to write the movie about the guy that goes to the white house and doesn't doesn't swear or you know fart at the table it's funnier to impose yourself a fart is a better example actually than a cigar it's this imposing thing a fart in an elevator or a car or whatever hot boxing somebody the that sort so that's sort of like self-assuredness it is a cheap it can be used cheaply but swearing is this sort of like no i'm not gonna speak the way they told me to speak so there is a kind of that language can fall in line with the imposing cigar fart like nature of something as preposterous as getting on stage and saying everyone please face me and listen so there's that and then there's the the other question they asked about topics unless you want to talk about the swearing thing no no go ahead the topic thing is a lot more tricky for me um i'm a people pleaser i i like doing comedy uh you could you could look at this as a little bit cowardly i don't really want to shake anybody up i like i like i don't do politics i don't really do religion even but like i want to go up and kind of have a silly silly fun time and then there are other people anthony jeselnik's a good friend of mine and he goes up and does boston marathon jokes and rape jokes and all that stuff that's not for me it doesn't seem to fit for me but uh you know i i go kind of i lean more towards the internet meaning i don't think we should censor the internet even though there's some really fucking terrible like legit bad things happening and i also don't think we should uh censor stand up that being said you know mike per bigly has this great point where he's like if you do a closer which 90 of horrible road comedians do about how drink up they can't catch us all it's a drinking and driving joke it's a very standard closer wow that's awful it is and you literally are affecting we are also a people that buy sprite because kobe drinks sprite on the tv and you're literally in real time getting drunk with them and saying they can't catch us all definitely without a doubt more people drink and drive because of shitty bets like that that's irresponsible people die people get maimed it's fucking horrible it's normal at so many different points in our life to feel like something is getting in the way of being present or happy something stopping us from achieving the goals that we have for ourselves or feeling connected to the people that we love better help will assess your needs and match you with your own licensed professional therapist to help you work on all those things you can connect with someone in a safe and private online environment for that reason it's so convenient you don't even have to leave the house you can start working with someone in under 24 hours when working with someone through betterhelp you can send a message to your counselor at any time and get a timely and thoughtful response plus you can schedule weekly video and phone sessions betterhelp has licensed professional counselors who are specialized in treating things like depression anxiety navigating family conflicts and so much more they're committed to facilitating great therapeutic matches so they make it easy and free to change counselors if needed anything you share with your counselor is confidential so many people have been using better help that they're recruiting additional counselors in all 50 states start living a happier life today as a listener you get 10 off your first month by visiting betterhelp.com liturgists join over 1 million people taking care of their mental health again it's betterhelphep.com liturgists i'll i'll defend that idiot's right to say it i don't think he should say it but i'm also not going to say like he should be shut down or something here's the thing eminem okay why do people love eminem not everybody loves eminem but people do love eminem because we happen to have this dark side all of us uh eminem even makes reference to the fact that he says like i say the things that none of you have the balls to say you just make these jokes in your friend's basement sort of thing and that's true so there's clearly this part of our psyche that is evil and dark and it might not be active but it actually has these uh troubling thoughts in it so then when you put somebody up and you say oh eminem he'll be our devil he raps about rape he raps about misogyny he raps about he's homophobic and his wraps and all that sort of stuff and then we receive some sort of uh catharsis with our whipping boy with with the pariah he's that and i'm not him but why does it cleanse you so much to listen to him if it does i'm not saying it does for everybody and then you know you could say the same thing about uh daniel tosh or jaisal nick are these people that like do these jokes they're just doing the jokes that they josh gets me every like i don't want to laugh yeah and i just laugh so what's going on i mean these guys are really deep sea diving we can all listen i love seinfeld we can listen to seinfeld and be like splenda is it really splendid you know what i mean and then we can listen to uh you know one of my favorite daniel tosh joke is he goes like every time the world is going to end i want it to end and he's like i don't want to die i want all of us to die which is that's a dark thought it's not as bad as like the other topics that you might want to avoid so i don't know the the real answer here and i'm not even being political is i have no idea yeah i i air right or wrong to the side of you can you can say whatever you want uh i'm also open to the i don't want to say things that would be destructive and i also want to be able to you know go on podcasts that reach way more people than dumb fucking uh idiots making drunk driving jokes at the end of their set and then you know there's some darkness and here's some light and and you know in the end hopefully the light wins so people all have their own systems of joke morality there isn't i don't think we're going to find one that's going to please everybody because there happen to be a lot of people that like opie and anthony and like uh you know these are funny people patrice o'neill and jim norton and you know darker new york comedy seller boys that's and and i don't want to take away their favorite type of comedy well on that line though of like the ethic your personal humor ethic yeah and it's different for everyone yeah it also seems to be different based on who you're around and the level of vulnerability you have because like i'm pretty much with comedy i'll listen to anything you know what i mean doesn't bother me and that doesn't for me it doesn't change with other people who are around i don't get more humor sensitive but i went on a trip recently with my wife and my pastor and uh she we were at her sister's house and she said oh i'd love to hear a pete holm stand up routine so we went on netflix and we couldn't find one and so uh there was an aziz routine though so i said well let's watch this one he's one of my favorites too yeah and you know it was one where he was talking about like molestation and you know why didn't i get child raped i thought it was a cute kid and stuff like that sure and my wife who would have totally laughed at home was like i'm going to bed i can't watch this okay and my pastor was like watching it but fortified and i was like tears rolling down my face in absolute delight and see in that i say good for you so now what are we looking at i think we might be looking at the motive i can't speak for the gesselnics and the nortons and all that stuff but like people like shit getting called out so here it is we're saying that humor depends on the setting right you know what i mean i i remember showing a friend a video in front of his prudish girlfriend and he was like oh my friend who i knew if she wasn't there would have been dying laughing and your pastor and your wife story so these guys in that sort of m m way that are like no fuck that we all have these thoughts we need to exonerate these thoughts we need to open the windows in the house and let them out i'm not going to be phony and false i'm going to go up and say the types of things i say to my other you know i was going to say terrible friends but like and that's a badge of honor though a terrible friend you think so yeah like my favorite friends are my terrible friends i say that all the time i say you gotta have a couple scumbag friends you gotta have people that you can call and be like i do something and they're like that's nothing [Laughter] but i mean like when you frame it as not somebody who is just going up trying to push buttons but somebody that's trying to champion honesty and even brutal gross truth isn't that the i mean it's almost like performance art right if you went in like maria yeah or whatever was in the met or in the guggenheim and you went in a room and she's just screaming cunt you might leave and just be like oh i get it you know what i mean there's a part of us that is a woman in her nightgown screaming that word but if it's a comedy club you're like i didn't sign up for this which is fine you didn't i see both sides right i think it's funny with like church church people i've noticed that i grew up in church and these same people like if you show any movie clip that all of them have seen in the context of a church and there's a cuss word in it or something like all of a sudden everybody's like oh yeah there's like this social but if you took any of those people and you just were sitting in the living room watching it nobody gives a shit so like that's it the honesty of it the truthfulness of it the the baldness of it in the in the in the writer term it's just like i'm just going to be completely what i am tony campolo who i think is great has that he came and spoke at my college i went to a christian college called gordon he's in the chapel and he says uh he i can't remember the fact so forgive me but he goes like every hour i'm going to make this up ten thousand children die from malnutrition in in uh uganda and then he goes so that means i'm gonna speak for half an hour when i'm done five thousand children will have died and then he goes and most of you don't give a shit it says this in chapel and everybody does and he goes you just gasped at me saying shit not at the fact that 5 000 children are going to be dead wow i've never forgotten that because i guess who gasped this guy had the shit and guess who then leaves chapel and goes to lunch and says shit this guy it's fucking stupid it's masks so again i can't do a great job but in defense of the guy that wants to go up and tell the boston marathon joke i've been at funerals where people go like people that were friends of the person who passed and made some terrible joke that they knew the guy would have loved or the woman would have loved and you have this unbelievable laugh this freeing church laugh you're not supposed to but before you know it you're crying for a different reason you're crying because you're laughing so hard so the uh pledge to take that sort of dark corner of comedy and bring it to the stage there is catharsis there it's not for me maybe maybe i'm not courageous enough or you know maybe i'm just more in this for the mass appeal but do you do you think that i think there is probably a dark side to it but i don't also wonder if there's just a respect side to it because i'm trying to think like i i there's not much that offends me either when i listen to humor um but there were times in my life like if i could hear somebody ranting on religion right now and i would think it would be hilarious um whereas if i were in high school i would have probably been deeply offended absolutely so what is what is it what what's the difference what makes somebody offended and not offended is there something like okay so we have a you saw our baby walking out yeah um she's got down syndrome i think it's like i try to find funny times to like laugh at that like like we had so we were at a friend's house recently and i couldn't find hers that somebody had put her in a bedroom and said has anybody seen a little human like this down syndrome bald and like and everybody at first like uh yeah and then you know like um but i'm sure there are jokes if somebody made fun of her down said that i would be deeply you know so like how do those lines fall where it's uh it's weird because it's experience and it's all it's experience that makes us not offended and it's experience that makes us offended yeah steve martin has a great quote where he says you grow up when you're young you make all the cancer jokes and your friends get cancer you stop making cancer jokes but so also similarly though you have a baby with down syndrome and if you make jokes about your baby with down syndrome i will laugh because i know your place yeah you know what i mean yeah it's it's so it's why we look for the black guys in the audience when a black guy makes a joke about black guys yeah we go like is this okay because we're fucking stupid animals you know what i mean but like if you listen to that's the episode description we're fucking stupid animals if you listen to it there's so much being implied socially morally this little window into your soul what makes you laugh people get in trouble in relationships because they laugh like i had a joke about how i hate my girlfriend's friends it was on my special but it wasn't on the televised version it's on the long version you have to have the album and i love doing that bit but you would often see guys not able to laugh at it which is kind of the tension i enjoy like i like to see that moment but uh you know i'm just saying when you have that experience you can you can laugh like got away from me that thought got away from me science mike you just cooked my noodle man that's all like i know we're having a good episode when like i get so captivated by what people are saying i forget to have a plan to say something well it's it's tricky it's tricky stuff and if i can make one thing clear i don't know i mean like i can i can sit here and envision a utopia where we all do uh silly silly every comedian is like me and we do silly silly fun jokes and everybody leaves going like i feel great it's not a good world it's not a compelling world it's like the matrix we tried to make everybody happy and everybody kept waking up because the world wouldn't accept it we need to have evil evil's a part of it evil's a facet i would say of the whole experience you know what i mean i grew up going god is good and satan is evil and now i'm kind of like no good and evil are our perspectives on every on something that is god you know what i mean like it's not like oh the the devil the devil made you look at the pornography you know what i mean like right i'm like nope that's all this it's all this so i don't i don't think it is a utopia where we don't have people making inappropriate jokes that's that's part of this mess this is part of the mess so that's sort of you're you're layering up to these bigger ideas like part of the mess you're starting to talk about the nature of life really right do you get angry religious people i keep waiting and you don't no which i'm glad which is totally the context thing i feel like like you've been able to put yourself in a comedian context rather than a christian comedian yeah that's right you know like yeah ever it's like he's not one of us i never claimed that group and i i won't yeah there's also a weird phenomenon in american christianity where uh christian artists yeah musicians comedians whatever uh if they say anything out of line at all if they're massacred yeah but if you're a mainstream artist and mention anything spiritual or vaguely christian your hero kanye west we love exactly like yeah jesus works oh we love it yeah and i get it it's just labels we love labels good bad man woman god person american bostonian pats fan socks fans like it's all nothing it's all just like a way of categorizing everything for us it's so pleasant that's why racism is fun [Laughter] of course i'm joking saying it's fun but that's why it's popular i think one of the reasons it's popular it goes like he's a christian comedian look i'm doing a southern accent to be a dummy you're crazy it's a thing i know it's a thing it won't be the mad men that they do about this time people will be like oh he's a real dummy like hey y'all come on like be like can you believe that was acceptable back then that and the fact that we're all holding microwave-enabled uh cell phones up to our heads non-ionizing radiation that's right all day [Laughter] when it's not on my head it's right by my nuts that's perfect one thing that does cross my mind and this might be a fear-based argument and i don't mean it that way if we say okay this guy can't make these jokes there are people that i do offend so if i say this guy can't make that joke who's gonna it's one of those like who's gonna speak for me when they say well i don't like that and then we have some weird dystopian future we're all taking like forced medication and uh we all wear like the futuristic robes and like all the comedy is just like peanut butter there's no butter it's not butter but then there's one there's one peanut grower that's like that's fucked up man i don't want you saying that about and then and then comedy just becomes like sounds and faces until the guy with no face is like you can't do that that's fucked up well he wrote that down because he doesn't have a fucking face so what's ironic to me censorship comedy religion i'm going serious too fast michael's still over there i'm enjoying the writing faceless man who's offended and it's fiction so the reason i'm like the jesus thing you like the jesus thing love the jesus grace so oh yeah if grace is like serious it's not only about number one people really don't offer themselves very much grace but like if that's not your style of humor it's not your style of humor exactly it doesn't have to be right like it's okay it's okay to not like that and have it exist that's okay that's what pete rolling says it's like conflict is okay war isn't conflict war is the inability to coexist with conflict so you have somebody that doesn't agree with you and you're like i have to shoot those people ice cream chuck which is totally coming through the recording it's fine uh so like and it seems to go with the maturity as well um pat oswalt has a bit where he talks about um he used to have music he hates yeah and he got older and he just music he doesn't listen to that's right that's what it is and i think comedy is kind of you don't have to hate the thing that you don't enjoy you can just not deal with it at all or you can even can't you can also learn maybe from what happens like if something grates me well that's that's that's a great tragedy yeah when i do colleges now you'll never find a more easily offended group than a college real estate it's supposed to be the place where you're like let's break down and i'm sure there still are some great schools out there for some reason like berkeley still has to be like some great school like bastion of free thought but you're a comedian in a college you better get ready to apologize if you say anything weird so weird they're 19 and you know they're all raised to be very sensitive for the most part not everybody but that's where i've gotten in the most trouble for sure i got in trouble for saying uh hobo and people like you can't say hobo that's inappropriate i'm like yes i can i guess it is like the problem with me is i can see i can see anybody's point and i'm just like then we can't do anything then we're back with peanut butter material and the faceless guy you know i mean like we're fucked you're going to offend somebody somebody's going to be offended but you don't have to have it but you can learn what why did that offend me that should be that should be illuminating for you and have a discussion and then yeah reflection but the crazy thing is and talk about grace and uh all that sort of experience thing the more non-christian things i did the greater my my grace grew and the more my empathy developed and the more my forgive my own personal forgiveness grew and i i've never been fully able to articulate this but it's like i really feel like i'm more christ-like now having done some like weird-ass things and calling my scumbag friends and being like this is the night i had i was drunk and met a girl and had random sex and at the end i think she felt weird and wanted to date and i was like i gotta go and this didn't happen but i'm just like you know a fake phone number like that's a fake story but like if that happened and then my friend came and said i just i slept with this uh strange girl and she got very clingy and i gave her a fake phone number before i would be like i love you brother let me pray for you but in my heart i would be like you're a piece of shit you know i mean friends who've had abortions i had friends when i was christian and they were like we didn't know what to do and we had an abortion and i was like oh my god and inside just the jacuzzi jets of like judgment and really hating them and really feeling like they did something and they're gonna go to hell and all that and you know i i'm fortunate i don't think anybody wants to go through that experience so i will say i'm fortunate that i never had an abortion with a girl but uh you know i didn't have to to know enough people and hear enough stories to actually grow and empathy stories that i wouldn't have been exposed to if i just stayed in the christian bubble right not necessarily i know that happens everywhere but i mean the more i got into like the deep dark corners of new york city comedy life you're going to meet some people that have had abortions and i think part of you know saying the christ-like aspect to having a more genuine less judgmental approach to people i actually do think that's one of the core things of this like gospel word we throw around like candy is um taking the woman who's just been accused and accepting her yeah you know what i mean because that's that is base to me that's entry-level mysticism an enlightened person realizes that everything is one yeah so he doesn't go you you've had an abortion and you've left my club he goes i also had your abortion you know what i mean like we had an abortion because we are the same energy and matter and it's all god and i see that and these other people are gonna go no it makes me uncomfortable i'm a bostonian red sox fan i'm an anglican you know what i mean i'm republican or i'm democrat or whatever it is no those are all just words you're just you're just a vibration and a smear of possibilities and i that's a debug i recognize it yeah and and so am i and here we are together and and we are entwined in reality and there aren't words to describe what enlightened people uh know but they all seem to act similar which is without judgment and without that need for dualism and and they don't and they do forgive they forgive because they realize there's nothing to forgive i mean they're just like i see that i understand i know it gets trickier when you get into like more grotesque sins but i think there is a certain detachment when it comes to uh waking up how can those who are spiritually inclined and even um we have a lot of being the liturgists we have a lot of people that are involved in like churches church work and how can people that deal with spirituality and and the development of spirituality within people and groups of people um [Music] approach humor and taking all of this in a way because to me like humor puts things in a perspective that nothing else can that being able to laugh at the insanity of it all yeah the mess um and to me i like laughter the more the healthier the more spiritually enlightened i am laughter should come easier and easier and everything becomes hilarious that's a rob story about desmond tutu and the dalai lama when they saw each other they tickled each other and just laughed like little children if that's not what it's about i don't know what we're all chasing you know i mean of course it's that so how can how can somebody that is trying to develop a spiritual group or how how do you see the the relationship of comedy and humor and spirituality holding hands it's so hard man because like i have a really big heart for pastors and i think it is a little bit of a you know everything is flawed it's a bit of a flawed system any sort of teacher because uh once you're in that position my advice is almost like get out of that position you know what i mean like if you can remove yourself from some sort of i am a christian teacher uh then i think that's at least i found that to be liberating for myself i i know a lot of pastors and stuff and i worry this is all conjecture this is not based on anything i worry that they're uh they preach and then they go home and they watch uh fargo and laugh their ass off or whatever it is they laugh at some like dark weird comedy they laugh at uh bigger and blacker they laugh at richard pryor live on the sunset strip and they would never ever admit that and that's really the the plague and really i think the burden they're dungeoned in the business of truth and now you have a board of trustees and you have elders and you have the people putting the money in the offering basket and forget those people that's chump change people that give donations like huge cash donations uh and get wings of churches built so you can't go up and and say certain things that's just that's just the job it seems like i think that's changing i think it is but it's also slowly yeah i was just gonna say slowly because i was gonna say it's also not because it just so happened that that was the job that we got to put the weights down you know what i mean we're like i'm not i'm not gonna do that today i i don't believe or i'm gonna make a joke about jesus being tone deaf which is one of my favorite jokes of my own and you couldn't do that if you did that at church you'd be like that's blasphemous you're you're making fun yes i'm making i'm trying to shine a light on the idea that you think when you die you're going to go to a cloud and jesus is going to be singing but instead i'm just talking about that he can't carry a tune to challenge you to challenge you that that's what you think heaven is that's one of those moments on that record where i had like a spiritual moment really was the tone deaf jesus i i really was i got to hear that it's amazing because i was you know i was thinking like uh you know because i sort of i mean you know what we talked on the program like so i i sort of volitionally accept a resurrection story yeah you know what i mean like i just trust the story why well because i trust the story yeah you know it doesn't make any sense but like so that but it allows me to explore interesting mental spaces and think about god and man and transcendence and all those sorts of things right for example what does god and man look like and tone deaf jesus made me really i'm not kidding think about like incarnational ideas it's and i know you're like that's ridiculous yeah but it was it was really i'm you know i was driving back from nashville to atlanta and that bit was on and i was i almost had to pull the car over yeah to like reflect it was it was my favorite thing ever i still remember the first time i said it like i kind of riffed it on stage and i was just like oh this is this for some reason it's just about listening so like did i intend for that no but like something inside of me was like you gotta do this don't have jesus was like okay i'll do it and then i did it and then people when you say that it doesn't surprise me because it speaks to me as as well so that that's all good stuff yeah that's great so that was science and faith and art art we did it i think i covered it yeah art comedy is an art i want to hear what he was going to say about music though oh yeah i'd love to tell as a musician i'd love to tell you it's just a peculiar thing so especially when i'm working on something currently i'm writing a script and so i'm in my head that's a type of insanity i'm not saying cool i'm crazy i just mean like it really does kind of feel like you're you're flying the kite into the black hole and you're letting the line out a little bit more than you normally do and you really hope you can pull it back and just go to starbucks and make small talk with the cashier you know what i mean because you're going into a strange place where you're d it's insanity we did a monologue about this on the pete home show where we were just like actors and writers are crazy writers are nuts it's just like oh my science mike enters and sits on a big uh aged leather sofa and puts his hands behind his bed and he remarks mike hey pete pete hey mike no that's not good hi mike and for some reason that feels better and you're like it's good and then you decide how long it should be it's it's all it's all crazy so it puts you in your brain really deep and i have to tell my uh my lovely girlfriend i'm like uh i'm in i'm in uh writing mode i'm in writing mode i'm gonna be uh staring off into space a little bit and she always says that she doesn't notice but to me i'm just like i'm just like in a different place anyway so then comes in music my brain is looping on things grinding on things i consider sleep work i consider playing video games work i can not in a bad way in fact i mean quite the opposite my girlfriend writes and you know she's she's younger than i am so i i don't have a guru relationship with her but i like to be like you gotta green light your process and going to the movies is also working on your script or your song or your book and uh going the park is and napping is and fucking is and everything eating is seeing a friend is going on a walk certainly is all of that stuff is working people think working is just sitting and i wish the irs saw it that way well then we could write everything off your entire house becomes your office for sure so i don't know how i got there but oh so there's always this looping thing and then when it has the object of his affection like a specific task i get even more kind of on edge i'm a little bit jumpier and i'm a lot more sensitive to external stimulation so if i watch a show all of a suddenly i'm we're watching seinfeld right now it's so fun but now currently i'm watching and i'm just like oh that was the blow the blow is the last joke i've seen i was like they didn't have a blow for that scene it doesn't ruin it for me this isn't like oh poor artist person just how it is when you're being creative bring in music when one of the reasons i love uber and i use uberx people always saying uber you must have a lot of money the rides are like four dollars i take uberx and one of the reasons is you rate them and they rate you and then i feel more like like they'll be cooler if you want them to turn the radio off which i almost always do so when i'm talking about music i mean pop music for the most part i love the national if i got in a car and they were playing the national i would love it if they were playing explosions in the sky if they were playing radiohead these are all hooky things but they're not they're not uh shaking off shaking off the hane is gonna hate hate hate hate hey nothing against taylor swift but fuck you that's gonna be in my head for a month for a month so i have this thing where i envy people that are just like i love music i love music i love it i love music what the fuck are you talking about in a day i have pockets of 15 minutes where i am blasting stevie wonder and singing along i listen to lionel richie we actually started with lionel richie and we're like it's good but stevie is better and we went to stevie wonder but like having a good time but then your temperament changes and you ride in silence a lot of the time i want instrumental music i don't want somebody ruining my train of thought with like my girlfriend liv shut the fuck up i don't care about your girlfriend unless i do but like it's temperamental i can't just say like i love music sometimes i love it sometimes i listen to kelly clarkson or enrique iglesias or taylor swift and i love it and then the same day an hour later i'm telling an uber driver to turn it off because i can't take it so where do people get these blanket statements like i love music i think that's a i think that's a nonsensical statement it's like saying i love emotion yeah exactly thank you too big too big it's too big or i love movies really you can't you can't i hate background music most of the time unless uh when i say like if if music was playing right now while we were trying to talk that would be like i don't know like too much too much stimulus it's a crying baby to me or like going trying to have a conversation in a bar where there's a live band that's too loud like i want to listen to the band or i want to have a conversation spoken like a true artist seriously i i did a show at largo last night little green room have you ever played largo i've attended shows or i've never played there you've got to play there i'm sure you will it's a tiny little green room and after the show we always just sit around and and it was these great comedians that have always and it's dead silent and no one could be happier oh so great in any tv or movie when there's a party people are having these long thoughtful conversations that move the story forward i'm like what party are you at that doesn't exist parties are so loud there's so much music happening and posing that people scream asinine facts back back and forth to each other look for lose feelers i say feliz what exactly the fuck is this give me a quiet room and a couple you can't be you can't be fully present with a conversation and with music nope i'm with you so you're either you're create you're not wanting to be present with one or the other so you're just filling it with noise that's why i love uh electronica i love classical piano stuff that if you're gonna put it behind work or even in the car that's great my mind will hook on to it that's why it's not a passive experience for me that's why if you put taylor swift on my brain is gonna hook on to that and i'm gonna wake up at two in the morning and it's gonna be playing you know what i mean so like i'm very deliberate i like things that i don't find i love that it's my favorite band of all time the national i don't find it overly catchy do you know what i mean by that yeah i don't know what i mean if it gets in my head i'm fine with it but it's not just like this one thing this hook that gets repeated over and over well there's music that i feel like it's is intended to be sort of the party background music that's not intended to be fully present with because if you are fully present with us it's super annoying right it's not deep enough there's not enough maybe that's what it is substance and maybe that's what the uber guys are putting on but i'm like my head is right by the speaker that's what the radio i think a lot of radio gets programmed with that kind of music that's meant to be thinking about i'm doing something else i'm driving i'm talking to my friends and the music that's playing has a subtly happy feeling has a subtly right and i get that in in low volumes if i'm in a restaurant if you i know there's some restaurants you go and there's nobody else there and i don't mind going to restaurants by myself if i go there and there's like one other guy slurping on his soup and i'm trying to read a book and there's no music playing or something like we could use a little ambiance i totally get you guys on the background music thing yeah i totally don't follow on the i love music as a bad platform like because it's a wrench with girls if a girl says i love music i'm like because i've always been a pop music cynic because i'm a ch i came of age in the alternative music 1990s pop is the devil and i just uh such disdain yeah and then i got to a point where i don't like pop music but someone else says i don't care and then i had kids and we were driving in the car and you know my wife listens to pop radio she won't she doesn't like my kind of music and uh katy perry came on and like uh jenny started singing and the girls all started singing and they were just celebrating life to this infectious pot melody i went holy shit this is this is what it when pop's good this is it oh i want to be i like pop music i mean like even even taylor swift's uh haters gonna hate hate hate no it's a great song if you dance around the house like with a parade in your socks with the family to that song oh i oh my arguably not full maybe i don't know if you're fully present with that song and only that song you are fully present with the party that's happening with your family yeah but that song that that party wouldn't work to pearl jam absolutely not and i'm not going back on what i said i do like pop music but then i began with the idea that my brain is grinding on something and then you want to shut up no it takes over it and i don't want it yeah then i find it yeah it takes so i'm either in the car playing it and dancing with my girlfriend as we're in traffic it's great thank you for life would suck without you that's a great song but then like most of the time uh i'm gonna i'm gonna want to turn it off and i feel like an old man but i think it's set i think it's setting just like the comedy thing it's setting you don't and all music has always been created with setting your mind yep and so you can't uh you don't want to have we just talked about the symphony of sorrowful songs on the last podcast where it's this 28 minute gradual build of tension that has this you have to listen to that almost like in the dark you know i'm like just listening to it the low frequencies are totally dissonant with each other because they're so you're having these like major thirds at the bottom of the register which is where you hear the warble if you just have that on everyone's just going to feel anxious like for all trying to have a conversation it's just playing but if you take a glass of wine and light a candle and just listen to that it's gonna be like see that's what you're talking about my brain is listening you know what i'm saying and i don't want to get good at not listening like so i i kind of have moments where i can tune music out and drinking helps like if you're if you're having a little bit of alcohol or whatever and you're at a party like i don't care what's on the radio but for the most part like my brain is engaging in the environment a lot of comedians a lot of creative people are like daredevil and they have to sleep in those sentry deprivation tanks at the end of the day it's because they're just kind of like absorbing it's it's empath they're empty they're absorbing everything around them i feel that way a little bit and sometimes that's great and sometimes i'll listen to trying to think of a song that i listen to i listen to the cold cold war kids and i just it was after i had meditated or whatever and i was very feeling present and i listened to it and it shook me like i was just so moved and i'm not putting them down that's not some weird symphony uh like you're referring to it's just that's pretty pop rock music got me you know what i mean because i was right there on it and that's kind of what i want to do with it i have a hard time when it's being imposed upon me i guess if i if i'm going to listen to kelly clarkson i want to be the one pushing play and i love that my girlfriend is like pete wants to listen to kelly clarkson that's fine and i'm just not that way you know what i mean but how could somebody not i don't know how a human being could say they don't love music that's why it's too broad to say i agree you love sound it's one of the it looks sight exactly color colors really maybe i'm just like mr hyperbole but every time you guys say i like and then someone marching category i'm like yes i do i love sight i love emotion it's good to be sad yeah it's all of it's beautiful and it just speaks so deeply the way i see the world that it's all a blessing well maybe what he's saying what pete is saying is that somebody that says i like music as though there's that some unique characteristic about them or not exactly it's not very thoughtful just say i like indie music i like i like pop music just i like music really you like you like a good i get it there you like you like irish brogues like to music is that what you want polka's pretty awesome you like opera you like you like country like bad country like broad pop country you don't like music you like certain just help me out tell me who you are i like music i like movies no you don't you like tyler perry movies or do you or do you like you know silent films do you like a birth of a nation what are we talking about here do you like lifetime movies do you just leave off leave out the noun just i like but you know what it is oh see i'm just getting happier and happier but i think i'm changing my twitter bio too i like but when people when people say i like movies at least i i give i'll give that a pass more than i like music because when people say i like movies you're giving it your full attention so you're when you say i like movies you mean i like taking a break from extroverted humanity sitting in the dark facing away knowing what to do for up to three hours three four hours sometimes usually snacking that's i get more of a picture from that i like music dancing playing it going to a jazz club the fuck is going on now i get it you see it took that long but i finally caught up but you know what i was circling around the point for a long time too but like i genuinely didn't get it though that's i totally just got it i also didn't know how to say it and i also dated a girl that i i i found to be a little bit too uh too simple and and she was like i like music i love music so i have a bias now i have an unwarranted red flag because if you said mike if you said i love music i'd just be like he loves music i'm okay with it it's like life though it's it's like there's no the thing for me right i'm always chasing the thing you have the cup of coffee and then you have the best day of your life next day you drink the same cup of coffee and you have a shitty day like low energy anxious bad and you're like i thought it was the coffee i thought it was my inversion machine i thought it was yoga i thought it was meditation i thought it was having sex in the morning it's not and it's not music so i've had i've been in honky tonks in austin and the band played and stirred me and i've meditated and listened to cold war kids and the music just got right into me and i had to transcend an amazing peak experience and then other times i put on music and been like turn that shit off it's not music it's it's it is emotion and it's life and even that is messy there's no guarantee and that's okay i talked about that at the together last thing i was like we're looking for a guaranteed experience if you're looking for that alcohol drugs cigarettes probably uh pornography masturbating sex to for the most part i mean those are you're gonna come you're gonna be full you're gonna be drunk you're gonna fall asleep you're gonna get high you know i mean those are guaranteed experiences that's why they'll always be amongst us like they're poor but like other things like music which is a beautiful it's a vibration it's a sound it's creation it's life it's going to be it's going to be messier it's going to work sometimes it's going to move you the other way the other time you might hear lean on me and feel inspired and the next day you hear lean on me and it makes you cry because it makes you think about your friend that loved that song and he's dead so how can we just say i love music it's a mess i don't think you could pick a better song for that example than lean on me because sometimes i'm like this song is amazing and it's my jam sometimes it's really sad and sometimes like how did this song ever become popular and it's the same song and it's my own like how is my little vortex shape today i guess and it moves around that object in a different way that's it i yeah it's not that i think we should all go around with existential crises on every statement you should definitely be able to say i like sandwiches but like the truth the truth is is sometimes you look at the same sandwiches you look at a sandwich and you're just like oh life exists by feeding on other life and then you're just like i don't like sandwiches anymore you feel sad i that wasn't a anti-animal thing anyway everything's alive i'll be the sandwich right now you love sandwiches oh man you got anything you want to plug or anything to land the plane uh god i i would i mean i like talking about the stuff and if you like hearing these types of conversations you made it weird start with the science mic yeah and also uh there's going to be more uh together at last right i mean keep an eye out if you keep an eye out if you want to know uh if rob bell and i are going to do another together last which i i'm almost 100 sure we're going to the best way is just to follow one of us on twitter i'm pete holmes and he's real rob bell one of us will tweet it well guys thanks for listening this has been a really fun episode if you have any questions or comments or uh just want to tell us what you thought come on by to the liturgist.com podcast you can reach us on twitter at the liturgists on facebook at facebook.com the litter just noticing a theme here uh this show was produced and edited by joel marchand and i'm science mike i'm michael gunger [Music] i'm p i do that do it i beat him i mean everybody knows who he is at this point [Laughter] you